juan_gandhi: (Default)
[personal profile] juan_gandhi
А пишите mixing deux oder drei o cuatro языков.  

На африканский язык шона это переводится с хорошей примесью финского: "А пишите nokusanganisa deux Oder kolmessa iwe neljä языков." На румынский - как "Un tip de amestec de lemn sau de lemn.", что по-нашему означает "что-то вроде смеси дерева и дерева",

Date: 2017-06-14 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gb0
Герои Льва Толстого запросто 2-3 языка мешали, хотя зачем оно – сказать тяжело.

Date: 2017-06-15 07:20 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] sassa_nf
You simply have no experience of a multilingual family. This is a very commonplace phenomenon. That's just how the brain works. You either force yourself to pause to recall a word or phrase in a particular language, or you use what came up first :-)

It's even weirder than that. The brain behaves as if it has contexts, and biases speech to a particular language depending on the identity of the interlocutor. It is not even triggered by the language the other person uses with you, just some internal preference.

Date: 2017-06-15 12:04 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gb0
I do :) I am also an amateur linguist a bit into a bad habit of peppering English (ditto Russian) sentences with words and expressions in Russian (English), French, German, Ukrainian, Hebrew and at times – Chinese and Japanese. While I do understand a bit of the inner workings you've mentioned – I've also learned the vast majority of people around do not really like these Russian nobility style tricks, whether they are exercises, "ponty" or merely inner compulsions and preferences. People typically believe them to be "ponty" – hence the question.

I really mostly mentioned Tolstoy since the OP has been recently mentioning Tolstoy. What I really do not have – is an experience of living in a group where mixing 3-4 (as with OP's text) languages would be the norm, like it supposedly was among Leo Tolstoy's described 19th century Russian elites. You know, folks who grew up with French as their primary language, followed by Russian and then English and/or German they've learned early in their lives. My take (yep, sure, based on personal experience and biases) is simply this – those people, were they to live today, would probably be exercising themselves in speaking one language, not a mix of four, hence the (somewhat poorly written) question "зачем".

Date: 2017-06-15 12:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] sassa_nf
"The ключ is on the двері" is something you cannot find in Ukraine (but can find in diaspora). But you can certainly encounter mixing Russian, Byelorussian or Polish with Ukrainian. Certain public figures make an effort to sound like that for fun, but that is a natural state for some.

Date: 2017-06-16 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gb0
I'd say it is slightly different in Slavonic Eastern Europe, esp. in a bilingual country like Ukraine or Belarus. In that part of the world, there do exist huge dialect continuum stripes stretching from Czech to Eastern Ukrainian and neighboring dialects/languages like those of Ukrainian and Belarusian Polissya are very much mutually intelligible (and the intelligibility seems to be distance-dependent, so that Mihalovce, SK and Uzhgorod, UA residents may have a slightly easier time understanding each other than, say, people from Kosice, SK vs people from Prague,CZ). Yeah, I can see folks from Brest, BY or Kovel, UA mixing four languages (Belarusian, Polish, Russian and Ukrainian) – but again, that may well be just their real local tongue, and the languages are related / part of a dialect continuum.

OP's initial sentence seems to suggest a much more weird mix, the likes of which I've read about in Tolstoy's fiction :(

Date: 2017-06-16 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gb0
True, but then it is not nearly as bad as a train to Saransk, where people at times sound as though they speak Russian, but then they really speak a mix of Russian and Mokshen.

Date: 2017-06-16 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] sassa_nf
Byelorussian is intelligible in Ukraine far from immediate vicinity. It is much more similar to Ukrainian than Russian or Polish. I had no problem listening to the radio with the host speaking Ukrainian, and the guest speaking Byelorussian.

Date: 2017-06-16 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gb0
>Byelorussian is intelligible in Ukraine far from immediate vicinity.
Yes, and so is czech/slovak. The language/dialect distinction in a dialect continuum of related languages (like Slavonic) is really all about politics :(

Date: 2017-06-15 12:05 am (UTC)
diejacobsleiter: (Default)
From: [personal profile] diejacobsleiter
Вуаля себе...

1234567890

Date: 2017-06-16 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] andy_ivanov
На иврите 1234567890 Неверно же

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