wtf is "exploitation"?

[juan_gandhi]

I have no idea what they are talking about, unless they just mean prostitution and slavery. And what do they mean by "exploitation", by the way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation ("see also "innovation")

I was just looking up "human trafficking", it is defined as "exploitation", now I'm clueless. I know, it's due to distorted perceptions, thanks to bad education, but...

Comments

[punk_floyd]

1) эксплуатация
harmonious exploitation ― рациональное использование природных ресурсов
exploitation of man by man ― эксплуатация человека человеком
2) использование (в своих интересах)
3) горн. разработка, эксплуатация (месторождения)
4) воен. развитие успеха (тж. exploitation of a success)
5) exploitative
6) эксплуататорский
7) эксплуатационный, связанный с эксплуатацией

2/3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation_film

[stas]

У марксистов, эксплуатация - это получение произведённой добавленной стоимости не оригинальным производителем
(производителями), а, скажем, инвестором.

При этом, разумеется, исключением является случай, когда инвестиции были сделаны государством из денег налогоплательщиков, а результаты труда изымаются посредством налогов или просто отбираются. Ибо сказано: "эксплуатация человека человеком", а тут не человек, а Государство.

Из этого в два счёта проистекает необходимость социализма - поскольку эксплуатация несправедлива и бяка, а без инвестиций в современной экономике никак, то... теория Маркса всесильна, потому что она верна.

[juan_gandhi]

Вот так вот. Ходишь по свету, думаешь, что понимаешь значение слов. Да хрен там. Поразителен, конечно, этот бред про эксплуатацию человека человеком. И как мы его хавали, не давясь.

[diejacobsleiter]

Мало кто всерьез хавал про эксплуатацию человека человеком при капитализме, включая самих пропагандистов. Сразу подразумевалось продолжение, по анекдоту: "а при социализме - наоборот".

Верить искренне в какую-нибудь марксистскую чушь - грех простительный. Что было по-настоящему отвратительно - это притворство, и то, что в нем не видели проблемы. Моральный стандарт советской интеллигенции. На политинформациях задвигать про социализм и лично Леонида Ильича, а дома втихую читать "Архипелаг Гулаг". В обыденности этого двуличия и была главная гниль. А эксплуатация что? Одна из миллиона глупостей, которые мы повторяем.

[stas]

Да ладно, мало кто. До сих пор полные университеты народу, который в это свято верит, что в США, что в Европе. Вот уже и в американском правительстве появляются. В совке, конечно, после трёх поколений воплощения идей социализма, верующих осталось поменьше, в социализм проще верить издалека. Но уже новое поколение выросло, вырастут и верующие.

[diejacobsleiter]

Вы правы, пожалуй.

Trafficking

[dennisgorelik]

When a person is using word "trafficking" to describe trading relationships -- I derive from that word usage that this person is either a sleazy propagandist or a brainwashed idiot.

Re: Trafficking

[juan_gandhi]

Right. But I think it's just another name for prostitution, which word they are afraid to pronounce.

Re: Trafficking

[dennisgorelik]

> another name for prostitution

Usage of word "trafficking" is more insidious than that.
They use word "trafficking" to imply that prostitution participants were illegally transported from other places.
It is much easier to disgust politically clueless audience to vote against implied "illegal transportation" even if trafficking does not involve "illegal transportation" at all.

Re: Trafficking

[math_mommy]

The word implies that transportation was made against the will of people who are transported to be prostituted. They are promised other jobs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-a8dAHDQoo

Re: Trafficking

[juan_gandhi]

Wait, wait.

People are promised a job, and so they are transported against their will? At which point anybody figures out that it is against their will? They don't want to go back anyway, do they?

That's before we switch to the topic of forced prostitution. Forced prostitution is not trafficking. A person can be forced into prostitution while remaining in their native Oakland, or Puerto Vallarta, right? "Trafficking" has nothing to do with it.

And the last touch. No word implies anything. It's an interpretation that may imply something. And interpretations vary. Let's use the words in their direct meaning, can we? Like "trafficking" means illegally transferring humans from one place to another, for a variety of purposes. Forced prostitution is forcing humans to do prostitution. Trafficking may be not included, ok?

Thousands of people cross the border every day, illegally - is it "trafficking"? 40-year-old males, young children, they are not here for prostitution, they are here because they, or their parents, want to be here. Is it "trafficking"? I was sure it is. But you mean something different, do you?

Re: Trafficking

[math_mommy]

Trafficking and prostitution not the same and they can exists together or separately. Is it clear? Regardless of your feelings about them.
If you do not want to hear about prostitution then it exists with other professions as well. Currently slavery exists in Africa, for example, and people for it are trafficked as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa

Re: Trafficking

[dennisgorelik]

> The word implies that transportation was made against the will

Correct: word "trafficking" implies that "against the will" option. But most of the time word "trafficking" is used when there is no "against the will" component in the trade.
All trade participants are doing it voluntarily.

Nonetheless, sleazy propagandists convince general public to enact the laws that would penalize prostitutes that volunteered (and were not forced to do prostitution).

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-a8dAHDQoo

That is a good example of a dishonest ad.
The ad promotes anti-prostitution and anti-immigration laws -- on the false premise that such laws would somehow help aspiring women dancers.

Re: Trafficking

[math_mommy]

So if you had been promised a programming job and good money, but instead of it you are forced to be a miner without any documents and language in another country, then it would be your own decision?

Re: Trafficking

[dennisgorelik]

Yes, the decision to start working as a miner - would be my own decision.
The promise to give me a programming job, in this situation, would be a lie, and probably can be prosecuted as a fraud.
Still, it is better NOT to call such situation "trafficking", because that "trafficking" name only muddles the matters.

But it looks like you missed my key point.
Most prostitutes know what kind of job they are going to do. But sleazy propagandists still call it trafficking and promote laws against these prostitutes in the name of "helping" these prostitutes.

Re: Trafficking

[juan_gandhi]

Exactly.

Re: Trafficking

[juan_gandhi]

That's an exaggeration, right? What happens in reality, one is promised a job of Scala programmer, but instead has to work as a Java programmer. Happens all the time, especially to H1 people.

[anonim_legion]

>wtf is "exploitation"

H1B, L1, МРОТ, трудовая книжка, "у вас нет регистрации".

[juan_gandhi]

Вот тут я бы громко аплодировал, если бы не было сейчас 4 часа ночи.

Конечно! И я того же мнения.