побежал, побежал, побежал

[juan_gandhi]

 Все побежали, и я побежал.

First language: Algol-60
Had difficulties: Prolog
Most used: Scala
Totally hate: PHP
Most loved: Scala
For beginners: JavaScript

Comments

[rampitec]

У тебя тоже хорошо с первым ;) Уважаю!

[juan_gandhi]

:) Да меня не спрашивали. Нас этому учили. Потом я на нем еще на контрактах фигачил.

[sassa_nf]

I don't know how to answer "Had difficulties".

The difficulties I had with Basic were the difficulties of understanding the first programming language.

The difficulties I had with Prolog took me a week to get the mental model of how the solutions are meant to be constructed.

The difficulties I had with Haskell were around expressing the things I wanted in that type system. The other difficulties were around parsing some complicated folds and diagonals, not the language as such.

The difficulties I had with Python were around detesting its aesthetics.

The difficulties I had with Agda were around getting the induction. Not so much the induction itself, as the need to prove "trivial" things by induction. And getting why some types aren't equal.


These were the difficulties as in the things that stopped me in my tracks. But I would probably rather rate them as inspirations.


But possibly the worst kind of difficulties I had were with Javascript. It is just a sacrilegious pile of landmines. It is the language where writing safe and correct code is the most difficult. Python comes close, but not quite as bad; it has more sane ecosystem.

[juan_gandhi]

That's a hell of a lot of difficulties.

Did you read "the good parts"? The trick with JavaScript is to totally ignore all that bullshit that was introduced to appease Java and C++ programmers. Treat it as a typeless lambda. And you will see its beauty.

[sassa_nf]

Sure, there was a lot of stumbling. At first I thought to say "Prolog", too, but then I recalled that actually that was maybe more than 20 years ago now. Did I not encounter anything harder than the taster of Prolog in the 20 years that followed?

But why Prolog was difficult, and not, say, Haskell? Or Coq?


Yes, I've read "the good parts". You are allowed to discard "that bullshit" only if you are sculpting something from scratch. If you want to construct a working system, you are going to use the existing modules that probably are not so well written, plus the things are underspecified - some intentionally, like getting "bananas", some unintentionally, like the streams hanging. So the concept may be good, but in practice is too malleable.

[sassa_nf]

so, when you say you "had difficulties: Prolog" - do you mean you never got over it? Or you resolved it, but that was the hardest difficulty?

[juan_gandhi]

Tried twice. Once in Russia, once here. Did not get it. Did not work for me.

Same with Lisp, btw.

[sassa_nf]

Oh, I see. No, my difficulties were never like that.

[swooy]

For beginners: JavaScript

Есть такое мнение, что Pascal какбе лучший for beginners

[juan_gandhi]

Конечно, есть. Есть много разных мнений.
Паскаль тоже ничо так. Но проехали, увы.

[timelets]

Looks like you spent your life among people who speak various dialects of Turing.

[66george]

Из всех языков, на которых я пытался программировать, наибольшую ненависть вызвал именно JavaScript.

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[dememax]

А откуда вдруг ненависть к этому web-языку?
Пришлось попрагроммировать?

Мне, если честно, пришлось на теперешнем месте работы. Странное ощущение. Но не худшее...

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[stas]

Я бы поставил $20 на то, что уважаемый Хуан на PHP не программировал никогда. Я не знаю, так ли это, но вот так мне кажется. Я прав?

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[juan_gandhi]

Вот эта игрушка у меня на флешке и PHP: http://patryshev.com/5inline/

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[stas]

Ну, значит, проиграл двадцатку. А сорс есть?

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[juan_gandhi]

Хороший вопрос. Не в гитхабе, но есть. Сюда, что ли, запостить? Вот кусманчик.

<?php

include 'lib.php';
include 'header.php';

  $username = $_POST['keycode'];
  $partner = $_POST['player'];
  $message = $_POST['message'];

  if ($_SERVER["HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR"]) {
    $ip = $_SERVER["HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR"];
  } else {
    if ($_SERVER["HTTP_CLIENT_IP"]) {
      $ip = $_SERVER["HTTP_CLIENT_IP"];
    } else {
      $ip = $_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"];
    }
  }
//echo ("user=\"$username\"  ip=\"$ip\"  ");
  if (isset($message)) {
    mylog($username, "message for $partner:\"$message\"");
  } else {
    mylog($username, "reading chat");
  }

  if (!checkUser($username, $ip)) {
    echo ("error=not logged in");
  } elseif(!isset($partner)) {
    echo ("error=have to specify partner");
  } else {
    $lock = "chat.$username.$partner";
    lock($lock, 10);
    if (isset($message)) {
      if (!mychat($username, $partner, $message)) {
         echo("error=chat with $partner somehow unavailable&");
      }
    }
    echo("contents=" . getchatcontents($username, $partner));
    unlock($lock);
  }
?>

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[stas]

Ну ничо, бывает и хуже. В 90-х примерно так и писали. Даже наверное в 2000-х немножко.

Re: Totally hate: PHP

[juan_gandhi]

2009-й